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	<title>Intelligent Design, Creationism, Evolution, and Theology &#187; great flood</title>
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		<title>On Christian Views of Creationism–Part IV (Continued: Young Earth Creationism)</title>
		<link>http://intelldesign.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/on-christian-views-of-creationism%e2%80%93part-iv-continued-young-earth-creationism/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 02:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
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				<category><![CDATA[Creationism]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Young Earth Creationism]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intelldesign.wordpress.com/?p=109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In Part II, I laid out an overview of Young Earth Creationism (YEC), and in Part III, I began addressing some of the controversy with YEC.  I will continue addressing the controversy and potential problems with YEC in this post.
Radiocarbon Dating
Radiocarbon dating is used for dating the age of fossils or formerly living matter [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=intelldesign.wordpress.com&blog=4244227&post=109&subd=intelldesign&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='snap_preview'><br /><p>In <a href="http://intelldesign.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/on-christian-views-of-creationism-part-ii-young-earth-creationism/">Part II</a>, I laid out an overview of Young Earth Creationism (YEC), and in <a href="http://intelldesign.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/on-christian-views-of-creationism%e2%80%93part-iii-continued-young-earth-creationism/">Part III</a>, I began addressing some of the controversy with YEC.  I will continue addressing the controversy and potential problems with YEC in this post.</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Radiocarbon Dating</span></p>
<p>Radiocarbon dating is used for dating the age of fossils or formerly living matter (organic matter) up to 60,000 years old.  (1)  This method of dating poses an apparent problem for YEC, because dates obtained from Carbon 14 dating are frequently greater than the 6,000 year-old age as purported to a literal biblical interpretation.  The basic assumptions of Carbon 14 dating are challenged by YEC proponents.  Namely, that the initial amount of Carbon 14 in organic materials can be known, changes in the Earth&#8217;s magnetic field, and the amount of Carbon 14 in the atmosphere was much higher before the global flood. (2)</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Star Light and Time</span></p>
<p>If you look up into the sky at night you will see stars.  The speed of light in a vacuum is a known rate (186,282 miles/second).  So, the distance that light travels in a year is known (5,878,625,373,183 miles), and the distance to stars and distant galaxies has been estimated.  The distance to the most distant objects in the universe is estimated in billions of light years.  So, the assumption is that the light from these objects originated billions of years ago.  YEC proponents do not question the distance to these stars and galaxies.</p>
<p>One argument is,</p>
<blockquote><p>Some Christians have proposed that God created the beams of light from distant stars already on their way to the earth. After all, Adam didn’t need any time to grow from a baby because he was made as an adult. Likewise, it is argued that the universe was made mature, and so perhaps the light was created in-transit. (3)</p></blockquote>
<p>However, it is also noted that,</p>
<blockquote><p>It seems uncharacteristic of <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/God.asp">God</a> to make illusions like this. God made our eyes to accurately probe the real universe; so we can trust that the events that we see in space really happened. For this reason, most <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/">creation scientists</a> believe that light created in-transit is not the best way to respond to the distant starlight argument.</p></blockquote>
<p>Again, YEC proponents challenge uniformitarian views.  Although some creation scientists challenge the speed of light, others approach the challenge with respect to time.</p>
<blockquote><p>Suppose that our solar system is located near the center of a finite distribution of galaxies. Although this cannot be proven for certain at present, it is fully consistent with the evidence; so it is a reasonable possibility.In that case, the earth would be in a gravitational well. This term means that it would require energy to pull something away from our position into deeper space. In this gravitational well, we would not “feel” any extra gravity, nonetheless time would flow more slowly on earth (or anywhere in our solar system) than in other places of the universe. This effect is thought to be very small today; however, it may have been much stronger in the past. (If the universe is expanding as most astronomers believe, then physics demands that such effects would have been stronger when the universe was smaller). This being the case, clocks on earth would have ticked much more slowly than clocks in deep space. Thus, light from the most distant galaxies would arrive on earth in only a few thousand years as measured by clocks on earth. This idea is certainly intriguing. And although there are still a number of mathematical details that need to be worked out, the premise certainly is reasonable. Some creation scientists are actively researching this idea. (3)</p></blockquote>
<p>And then there is the time zone argument,</p>
<blockquote><p>Since God created the stars on Day 4, their light would leave the star on Day 4 and reach earth on Day 4 <em>cosmic local time</em>. Light from all galaxies would reach earth on Day 4 if we measure it according to cosmic local time. Someone might object that the light itself would experience billions of years (as the passenger on the plane experiences the two hour trip). However, according to Einstein’s relativity, light does not experience the passage of time, so the trip would be instantaneous. Now, this idea may or may not be the reason that distant starlight is able to reach earth within the biblical timescale, but so far no one has been able to prove that the Bible does <em>not</em> use cosmic local time. So, it is an intriguing possibility. (3)</p></blockquote>
<p>Challenging the assumptions of naturalism is also an argument.  It states that although God sustains the universe in a certain way presently, this tells us nothing about how He actually created things in the beginning.</p>
<blockquote><p>It is perfectly acceptable for us to ask, “Did God use natural processes to get the starlight to earth in the biblical timescale? And if so, what is the mechanism?” But if no natural mechanism is apparent, this cannot be used as evidence against <em>supernatural</em> creation. So, the unbeliever is engaged in a subtle form of circular reasoning when he uses the assumption of naturalism to argue that distant starlight disproves the biblical timescale. (3)</p></blockquote>
<p>Cosmology is also examined, and it is noted that there is a star light and time problem with current cosmological theories as well.  This perspective forces a detente between the creationist view and the naturalist view by asserting that both perspectives are faced with the same basic problem.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230; since the big bang supporters’ own assumptions, including uniformitarianism and naturalism, there has not been enough time in 14 billion years to get light from A to B; they are too far apart. This is a light travel-time problem—and a very serious one. (3)</p></blockquote>
<p>The most distantly observable matter in the universe is said to be 46 billion light years away from the Earth. (4)  If the universe is approximately 14 billion years, old, then it would be impossible for us to see things that far away.  Naturalists invoke unverifiable theories such as &#8220;dark energy&#8221; to explain this problem.  So the notion is that both the creationist viewpoint and naturalist viewpoint both have problems with star light and time.  The notion is where you place your faith, in those things that are said to be &#8216;revealed by God,&#8217; or in the theories of humans.</p>
<p>(1) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon</a></p>
<p>(2) <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-c14-disprove-the-bible">http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-c14-disprove-the-bible</a></p>
<p>(3) <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-starlight-prove">http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-starlight-prove</a></p>
<p>(4) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Size_of_the_universe">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Size_of_the_universe</a></p>
<p>A potential cosmological resolution to the star light and time problem is presented in the book, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0890512027/102-6488650-6810527?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=thecoushr-20&amp;linkCode=xm2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creativeASIN=0890512027">Starlight and Time</a>.</p>
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		<title>On Christian Views of Creationism&#8211;Part II (Young Earth Creationism)</title>
		<link>http://intelldesign.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/on-christian-views-of-creationism-part-ii-young-earth-creationism/</link>
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		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>thecountryshrink</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Creationism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Intelligent Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[cosmology]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[YEC]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Young Earth Creationism]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[This view of creationism rests on a literal interpretation of the Bible.  The notion is that the Earth was created 6000-10000 years ago.  The dating is based on the genealogy listed in the chapter Numbers in the Bible.  This perspective says that uniformitarian interpretations of geology and cosmology are incorrect or misinterpreted. [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=intelldesign.wordpress.com&blog=4244227&post=78&subd=intelldesign&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='snap_preview'><br /><p>This view of creationism rests on a literal interpretation of the Bible.  The notion is that the Earth was created 6000-10000 years ago.  The dating is based on the genealogy listed in the chapter Numbers in the Bible.  This perspective says that uniformitarian interpretations of geology and cosmology are incorrect or misinterpreted.  They don&#8217;t deny the operation of microevolutionary principles (natural selection) operate in the world and use this to account for the wide ranging variation in the &#8220;kinds&#8221; of life (look at the variation in dogs for example).</p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><strong>The Fall of Man</strong></p>
<p style="text-align:left;">The fall of man is given a prominent place in this point of view.  Before the fall creation was perfect.  There was no death (even among the animals).  There was no suffering.  There was no disease.  And living things (animals and humans) were vegetarian.  After Adam and Eve ate from the &#8220;Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil,&#8221; God proclaimed that they would die and were banished from the garden.</p>
<p style="text-align:left;">From this view, all of creation in the world fell.  Not just human beings.  Death came into the world.</p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>The Great Flood</strong></span></p>
<blockquote>
<p style="text-align:left;">Genesis Chapter 6 (NASB)</p>
<p style="text-align:left;"><sup>5</sup> Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.</p>
<p><sup>6</sup><sup> </sup>The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was <sup></sup>grieved in His heart.</p>
<p><sup>7 </sup>The LORD said, &#8220;I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for <sup></sup>I am sorry that I have made them.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;.</p>
<p style="text-align:left;">16 Behold, I, even I am bringing the <strong>flood</strong> of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.</p>
<p style="text-align:left;">&#8230;. Chapter 7</p>
<p><sup>4</sup><sup> </sup>For after seven more days, I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will blot out from the face of the land <sup>)</sup>every living thing that I have made.&#8221;</p>
<p><sup>5</sup><sup> )</sup>Noah did according to all that the LORD had commanded him.</p>
<p>&#8230;.</p>
<p><sup>11 </sup>In the six hundredth year of Noah&#8217;s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.</p>
<p><sup>12</sup><sup> </sup>The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights.</p>
<p>&#8230;.</p>
<p><sup>19</sup> The water prevailed more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered.<sup></sup></p>
<p><sup>20 </sup>The water prevailed fifteen cubits higher, and the mountains were covered.</p>
<p><sup>21</sup><sup> )</sup>All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind;</p>
<p><sup>22</sup>of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died.</p></blockquote>
<p style="text-align:left;">
Evidence for the global flood is taken from hundreds of legends across all continents. (1)  The uniformitarian view, that rock layers were laid down over millions of years is seen as false, and the notion that the rock strata layers were laid down in a cataclysmic event (the flood) are seen as true.  (2)  The fact that different types of animals are seen in different strata layers is interpreted as a natural sorting process.  The more intelligent animals would run away from the flood waters, and would thus end up in the higher layers of the strata.</p>
<p style="text-align:left;">I&#8217;ll write more about potential problems with this viewpoint and possible answers to these problems in Part III.  The notion with this point of view is that through sin, came death.  Death is viewed as a bad thing and is the result of the original sin of Adam and Eve.  This is contrasted with the view of Darwinism, which is through death comes life.  This viewpoint explains a great many things (disease, suffering, death, social ills, and so forth), that are seen as very negative things by people on the Earth currently.</p>
<p style="text-align:left;">However, there are a number of problems with this viewpoint, which I will discuss in Part III.  But, if you begin with the assumption of an all-knowing and all-powerful Creator, all you need to provide is one possible explanation for how things could have occurred.  Personally, I lean a bit more towards this viewpoint than OEC, because of it&#8217;s explanatory power and consistency with the Bible.  But, for Christians, we need to keep in mind the most important aspect of the theology.  And that is Christ paid the price for our sins and on the day of judgment, the Father will look at us and see Christ.</p>
<p style="text-align:left;">My own point of view, is that the universe may have been needed to be created in the exact way that it was in order to allow for life to exist on Earth.  As Adam and Eve were created with the appearance of age, the universe was likely created similarly.  When you go to watch a movie, it has a starting point.  The assumption is that things happened before the movie started.  If you were to look at Adam and Eve as fully grown humans, you might infer that they had existed for 20 or 30 years and been born of a woman as we know always happens now.  However, the Bible asserts otherwise.  I think the same thing may apply when we look at the universe and its apparent age.  But again, my faith does not rest on these notions, and there may be superior explanations that are biblically consistent.</p>
<p style="text-align:left;">(1) <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/flood-legends">http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/flood-legends</a></p>
<p style="text-align:left;">(2) <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v14/i1/catastrophe.asp">http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v14/i1/catastrophe.asp</a></p>
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